tv Andrea Mitchell Reports MSNBC November 21, 2012 10:00am-11:00am PST
the right direction that we should build on. there is no substitute for a just and lasting peace. >> nbc's stephanie gosk is in tel aviv, ayman mohyeldin in gaza, jim maceda in cairo. let's ask jim maceda, you were in cairo the announcement came from there. egypt is being given credit for having at least brokered this deal or godfathered this deal. what are the terms? do we know anything more about the terms of the cease-fire? >> well, we know that there was no formal agreement. that's the key thing here. this means that israel and hamas had reached an understanding, a kind of exchange of quiet for quiet, and that this will be the first phase of a deal. that will be followed by a second phase in days or weeks or months of much more intense negotiations. those talks will be anchored by and guaranteed by egypt, but
with the strong participation of the united states to resolve key demands on both sides which are still out there. the main demand from hamas who wants the block aid of gaza lifted immediately, that is not going to happen, the israelis want an immediate end to all smuggling of arms and to gaza and the sinai, that has not happened either. they have agreed to these demands but need to work that out. >> stephanie gosk, you're in israel where we've experienced -- they've experienced the first bus bombing in years. the first terror attack on tel aviv since 2006. tell us about what happened, the damage, and the victims? >> sure. they're calling it a terrorist attack, andrea, although not a suicide bombing. it is a commuter bus around lunch time today and at least a dozen people injured. several severely injured. and it's a very familiar sight as you know in this city and around israel but it had been
quite a while since there was a bus bombing, since 2004. and it certainly puts people in this country on edge because unlike these rockets that have been coming into israel, that they've been very good at shooting down, this is an attack on the ground within the country and that is not something that people here have faced for a while and they are going to want reassurances in the face of this cease-fire and potential deals down the road, that this kind of thing will not happen. >> and, of course, israel still remains mobilized and that kind of mobilization comes at considerable costs. so, one question that we need to ask and that we can be following up on throughout this hour is whether or not they're pulling back, whether because of the cease-fire they would be standing down. my suspicion is that they would stay there poised for a potential invasion if this thing does not hold. i want to ask ayman mohyeldin to brief us on what's happening in gaza. they had a terrible night in terms of the effect on the people, people who had already
been moved into centers close in on the city so a lot of displaced people, don't know if they're returning to their homes, as well as the fact that we did see gazaens celebrating that tel aviv bus bombing? >> well, there's no doubt about that. there's going to be a sigh of relief here among many people who over the past several days, not only have had to deal with the tremendous amount of hardship, but also were very much afraid of a possible ground invasion and what that could mean for them, their communities, their livelihoods. there was no doubt earlier today with that explosion in tel aviv and more importantly the claiming of and the celebration by hamas and other palestinian factions that people here were really nervous that was going to be a triggering mechanism for that ground invasion. so there was a sense of apprehension throughout the day that this deal was slipping by the hour. there's no doubt that the news today that there is an agreement will certainly be welcomed news to many palestinians. we're still an hour away from that going into effect but i've been able to reach some hamas
officials who say they are going to be committed to that truce so long as egypt and others guarantee some of the agreements. their interpretation of it, this is why it's important, although things are not spelled out, sometimes they are given verbally, their interpretation is that there is going to be an easing of that blockade or a lifting starting as quickly as possible and there will also be a cessation of rockets into southern israel. it's going to be very important to see how that term of those agreements are spelled out, how they're imme meanted in the coming hours and more importantly whether or not they stick. andrea? >> thank you all so much. i know you're going to stay at your posts and developments throughout the hour. thank you, stephanie, jim and ayman. joining me in the studio former u.s. ambassador to israel, martin, now at brookings. author of "bending history president obama's foreign policy." thanks to both.
martin, we've seen this before. we've seen crease fires that hold and that don't hold. first of all, this is an unusual role because we've never seen the muslim brotherhood leader and now president of egypt brokering this and he taking responsibility as hillary clinton was very quick to point out for making sure it does hold. >> i think it's a hugely important development. first of all the cease-fire itself which means a relief for the citizens of gaza and the citizens of israel, which is important in itself and let's hope it holds, but the fact that this was brokered by the united states in the form of the secretary of state on one side and the democratically elected muslim brotherhood president of egypt on the other is a new post-arab spring development which bodes very well because there was always a question, the muslim brotherhood with its anti-israel, anti-western ideology, taking power in egypt whether they would live up to the commitments of the peace
treaty and use their influence in a positive way over that other muslim brother hood faction which is hamas. the muslim brotherhood is a generator of hamas. we have them using their influence in this way, as the united states used its influence in israel, obama spoke to netanyahu and told him you need to sign this, he said he was happy to do that. there you have a very good foundation for what needs to be done next which is once we get through the immediate cease-fire, how to stabilize the situation in a way that makes life normal for both israelis and palestinians and that's clearly going to have to be on the agenda. otherwise this will not be a long-lasting cease-fire. >> james zogby. >> life won't be normal for people in gaza or the west bank until they're freed in this occupation and that's the problem, what's happened here is yet another tragedy, another round of violence, hundreds on the palestinian side dead or
wounded, both sides afraid of each other more than they were before, and nothing accomplished, other than another cease-fire that will hold for lord knows how many years. and egypt has, you're right, martin, has played the role of mubarak and hamas is agreeing to play the group the fatah once played in policing the gaza trip. but if that's all that we have, which is a passy fide gaza under the control of hamas and a passy fide control of fatah and no peace we're waiting for the next round of violence and that's where diplomacy has to start and become very vigorous, is to get us off this dime that we're on right now, waiting for the next catastrop catastrophe. >> jim, you're expressing the frustration of palestinians and dare i say israelis as well, that the peace negotiations, the peace track, whatever you want to call it, has been absolutely
dormant and you can blame the fact of weakened palestinian leadership, benign neglect from this administration or the prior administration or the decisions that went into the elections premature some said back then when hamas actually defeated or gathered more votes. there was a lot of blame. we can go back decades or thousands of years. what now has to happen to get past this immediate crisis and to some point where there is a real negotiation, where people are not living in -- behind, you know, the barriers here in the west bank and in gaza? >> i think we have to stop with gaza and not imagine that wes can just springboard into a peace negotiation. i mean i agree with jim's sentiments wholeheartedly but first thing's first. the cease-fire has to be stabilized and effectively in my
view, the siege has to be lifted because it's become totally counter productive from israel's own point of view. all it does is strengthen hamas, weakens the palestinian authority in the west bank -- >> what about israel's security concerns? >> indeed, undermine's israel's security. the rockets are smuggled in and eventually get fired. so, and now they're reaching tel aviv and maybe jerusalem. so, the siege needs to be lifted but the siege can't be lifted unless hamas decides it's going to be a responsible government, rather than a terrorist organization that's going to continue the struggle to destroy israel. >> should the united states -- >> if it's willing to do that -- look, first thing's first, if it is willing to become a responsibles government, that means that it's responsible for no violence emanating from gaza into israel. if it wants a siege lifted it's got to act responsibly. >> here -- >> and it can't smuggle weapons into gaza to use against israel
either. and the egyptians can be the guarantors of that. if that happens, hamas is meeting one of the most important requirements for recognition which is to stop its violence against israel. >> i'll give you two steps that ought to be taken now. the u.s. ought to back off in terms of opposing a u.n. declaration of palestinian statehood. giving abu maysan some legitimacy and supporting his leadership is critical. >> this is scheduled for the general assembly for november 29th. he lost in the security council which would have been statehood supposedly. now it is a symbolic gesture in the general assembly. hillary clinton said today in ramallah to abu massen, also known as mahmoud abbas, by his proper name, said do not pursue this. this will only create problems for you in congress. you will lose money, you will lose legitimacy, not gain
legitimacy. why do you think that's an important step? >> that one vote will hurt but it can be compensated for elsewhere. the point is this man and movement that he heads and this government that he heads in the west bank, is struggling for legitimacy. what hamas has done is become the center of attention and the driving force in -- on the palestinian street -- >> hasn't the train left the station for abbas and fayyad and the others in that wing of the palestinians. >> i was going to say the second step. the first step is recognizing that right to independence and statehood. giving it some formal credence. secondly, is to support palestinian unity which is absolutely critical. you cannot have a hamas government in one place, a palestinian authority in the other place, both of them dependent on external funding sources to survive and consider this somehow an approach to peace. there has to be one negotiating authority on the palestinian side so every time there's been a unity agreement, efforts have
been made to sabotage it. there cannot be sabotage. we have to support and recognize it is the only way forward if we're going to get a peace settlement is to have a unified palestinian national -- >> isn't that partly up to the palestinians themselves? they're divided, martin. >> that's right. >> but we -- >> sabotaged it. >> you know, jim, the problem is fatah and hamas are deeply opposed to each other and the rivalry has only been deepened i think by this latest crisis. >> which supports netanyahu saying i have no negotiating partner because you have two warring factions. >> i agree with jim, that unifying the palestinians is a precondition to having a viable negotiation because these -- otherwise, the israelis can legitimately say who are we negotiating with. >> hasn't this administration, though, hasn't this administration not paid enough attention? hillary clinton first trip to ramallah in more than two years,
five trips overall since she became secretary of state, compare that with condoleezza rice, 25 trips in the same number of years? maybe that shows just the futility of it. warren christopher, 34 trips to israel. how do you compare the intensity of diplomacy? >> well, i think that this administration did try, but it failed. and there are lots of reasons why it failed, and lots of blame to go around as you said before. but that's not a reason for not trying again. especially because we see the consequences of not trying is in the bloodshed and the conflict. so the question is, how to do it this time in a bert way than last time? part of the problem was that president obama managed to alienate all israelis from left to right. he managed to convince them he wasn't their friend. now he's managed to convince them in this crisis he has their backs. they stood up for their right to
defend themselves. he provided the funding for the iron dome system that's protecting israelis from the rocket fire. he has a lot of credibility with the israeli public these days. and he should use that. and not to speak of secretary clinton. maybe he should make her the special envoy in a new position. but there is no substitute for u.s. engagement and the fact that there is a potential for us to have a partner in the muslim brotherhood leader of egypt in this effort to resolve the israeli/palestinian conflict is an advantage that we need to use for positive effect in terms of creating the basis for a viable negotiation. >> final thoughts. >> but there has to be pressure from washington and not simply accepting the terms laid down by congress and telling the palestinians you can't do this because of congress. we have our own politics here in america. they have their politics there. and apec may rule the street in
congress -- >> because of pro israel lobby. >> and deny palestinian aid if, in fact, they declare independence and statehood but the fact is, they have to be concerned with what is important to them and that is their credibility and their legitimacy as a governing authority. if we have a situation where hamas has won a victory and that's how it will be perceived and abu mason and the palestinian authority have been humiliated an that's how it will be perceived that is not a recipe for success. the congress be dammed in this context. palestinians have to do what they think is best for them and the u.s. should back them up and support them and the rest will take care of itself. aid will be forthcoming for palestinians i believe from the arab side, but we cannot allow this moment to pass without the palestinian authority being somehow rehabilitated so it become an equal partner. >> we have to leave it there for now. thank you both very much.
we'll continue to follow the breaking developments all the developments from the middle east, joined by michael orrin, israel's ambassador to the united states. [ male announcer ] it's simple physics... a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen, and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure
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and we continue with our breaking news within the hour, be a cease-fire announced in cairo brokered in part by the new president of egypt, be president morsi, hillary clinton announcing it with the foreign minister there. joining me michael orrin, israel's ambassador to the united states. we anticipate the prime minister is going to be speaking in jerusalem very shortly. let's find out what do you know is in the cease-fire? is there an agreement, for instance, for the hamas in gaza to stop firing rockets and is there any intention to back off, not invade presumably if it's a cease-fire there wouldn't be an
invasion, but what about the blockade? what about opening access to gaza? >> hello, andrea. always good to be back. i can't go into many details but what i can say is prime minister netanyahu responded to a request from president obama to agree to the cease-fire which as you said will go into an effect in an hour or so and that -- and that israel will continue to reserve the right to take whatever means are necessary to defend itself, should hamas resume firing at our citizens. we have long-term interests and goals which include not only the cessation of the firing that has gone over the last week, the 1,500 rockets that have hit israel over the last eight days, but creating a situation where hamas and other terrorist groups in the gaza strip cannot open fire at will at us as they were doing in the past over the course of 2012. we were hit by about 700 rockets. it paralyzed the whole country, at least half of the country. we can't have a situation where
advanced weapons from iran, long range rockets are crossing into gaza from the sighmy peninsula. >> what was said in congress, be president morsi is going to assume the role of policing this. he's taking responsibility in hillary clinton's words for this. this is potential lay major step, a big breakthrough as martin was pointing out, the muslim brotherhood was the prejen ter of hamas. there's a close linkage there. he has domestic pressures. he is stepping up to the role, an international role, that we had not expected morsi to assume. what is your hope? >> our hope in the past was egypt would fulfill a constructive role in the past it had fulfilled a constructive role and here it has, and we appreciate that contribution. >> what does israel now want to see in terms of the long-range missiles? what proof do you need, what evidence do you need to see that the smuggling has stopped and
that hamas is stepping up to its political responsibility to police itself and to govern before you will agree to take down the blockade? >> well, we regard hamas as the government of gaza. it's responsible for what goes on in the strip from the shooting that comes out of the strip at israeli civilians. hamas has to step up to the plate, assume that responsibility, has to be accountable. that's very important for us. the block cade is not a full blockade. >> it's a blockade from their perspective. food and medicine gets in. >> we check ships to make sure there are no iranian arms on them. that's the extent. until iran stops shipping arms to terrorists shooting at our citizens we have to take that measure to defend ourselves. >> what can you offer hamas in gaza in exchange for them stopping the rocket fire? >> first of all they have to stop the rocket fire and then i think it will be further diplomacy, further talks to iron out the details.
but, you know, basically, it's hamas has to fulfill its responsibility as the governing body if you will of gaza. >> one of the things that has certainly been discussed coming out of this tragedy is that the israeli/palestinian peace talks, the track has been dormant. you have a decision between palestinians on the west bank and gaza, two feuding political entities, no partner as prime minister netanyahu has said, at the same time, ab be but mazen, mahmoud abbas, has been really reduced and almost delegitimized by what happened because hamas is now the stronger political entity. >> well -- >> how do you deal with that? >> certain degree it's a self-inflicted wound by president abbas. he's refused to sit down at the negotiating table with us. if he had sat down at the negotiating table with us three and a half years ago, we could have been well on our way to a two-state solution. he would be the president of an
independent and internationally recognized state at peace with israel. >> what if he proceeds next be week with what he told hillary clinton and she argued with him apparently in ramallah f he proceeds with a u.n. vote in the general assembly for statehood? what will be the impact? >> the impact will not be good for the palestinians, not going to bring them closer to statehood, won't bring them closer to peace with us and may set us back significantly. israel has a great number of agreements with an entity called the palestinian authority during the 1993 oslo accords, we don't have any agreements with an entity called the palestinian state and the united states, which is a cosignatory on the 1993 oslo accords doesn't have any agreements with an entity called the palestinian state. all the agreements we have could be jeopardized. it could inflate palestinian expectations unrealistically and lead to unrest. we see it as perfectly, you know -- it's just unhelpful, unwise and could be very harmful. if mahmoud abbas wants to become
again the central player it's simple, sit down, negotiate with us, become the president of an independent palestinian state at peace with israel. >> the leafletting, which was supposedly telling gaz zans to get away from dangerous areas, resulted in people being displaced, people panicking, thinking there was going to be an invasion. can you speak to that and to the disproportion, disproportionate military might? we know that israel has been rocketed and the u.s. is standing with israel in this and that there is no excuse for rockets firing against civilians. clearly throughout israel. but the fact is, you have this densely populated area and people -- civilians dying because they are living, you know, side by side in the same buildings as hamas leaders that you take out? >> that is the fault of hamas. hamas has put its fighters in the very midst of a densely populated area because they not
only have a military strategy of trying to kill the maximum number of israeli citizens, they have a media strategy. they want us to fire back at them and if we injure pll civilians or -- palestinian civilians or kill them tragically, they can use that sensationalize, put the pictures on the newspaper and delegitimize us and deny us the right to defend ourselves. if we injure or god forbid kill palestinians for us that's a tragedy. if they kill israelis for them that's a victory. it's completely different set of rules for hamas and for israel. this time, we were able to reduce in this round of fighting -- the last round was in 2008 -- 2009, a higher level of civilian casualties. we were able to pin poirnts some of our targeting much better. there are a number of palestinian casualties but between one half and two-thirds of the casualties are actually armed fighters. and not civilians. but again, we tried.
through leafletting, tens of thousands of computer generated phone calls, sending text messages to civilians in areas where we knew hamas was embedded, giving them the chance to get out. >> are you going to retaliate for the bombing of the bus in tel aviv? >> we don't know who was responsible yet for the bombing of the bus in tel aviv. >> tif you find out -- be. >> they handed out candy in the streets. >> if you find out it was someone in gaza will you hit gaza? >> we'll find out who is responsible and we will ensure whoever tried to kill 22 people on a bus in tel aviv today, sure they will pass the price for doing that. >> ambassador michael or rorrin a busy and difficult time but we hope that somehow the violence will cease and the cease-fire will hold. >> israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu is expected to speak publicly moments from
now. this is "andrea mitchell reports." we will bring that to you live right here on msnbc. well, if it isn't mr. margin. mr. margin? don't be modest, bob. you found a better way to pack a bowling ball. that was ups. and who called ups? you did, bob. i just asked a question. it takes a long time to pack a bowling ball. the last guy pitched more ball packers. but you... you consulted ups. you found a better way. that's logistics. that's margin. find out what else ups knows. i'll do that. you're on a roll. that's funny. i wasn't being funny, bob. i know.
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producing natural gas. it's not a dream. america's natural gas... putting us in control of our energy future, now. joining me is mark halperin, senior political analyst for "time" and msnbc and "usa today" washington bureau chief susan page. welcome both. susan, we've seen presidents in the past grapple with the middle east. we saw bill clinton up until the last days of his presidency in december of 2000 basically spending his final month with yasser arafat -- >> and how did that turn out? >> which is probably the lesson for president obama and hillary clinton. did they come too late or are they now stuck in it? >> i think they've tried to stay clear of it. i'm sure hillary clinton thought i'm almost out the door and events forced her to get
involved and the president more involved. how many times have you been at a news conference when someone says last question and the last question is the one they did not want to get. i feel likes the administration is in that fix right now. >> mark halperin you've been watching this as well for years, there's a rhythm to these things but the middle east has really exploded literally and it's front and center? >> well, look, you can't say that administration has put a high priority on the kind of full-time engagement that secretary clinton's husband engaged in and we've seen during some previous administrations. sometimes in the past we've seen in these crises and administrations have said this is an opportunity. i don't think anybody thinks we're going to build off this. the real possibility continues to be with the arab spring and the potential democratization in some of the other parts of other countries in the region. as we've seen that's been mixed so far. we've seen governments come to power that aren't as friendly to israel. egypt case in point. i think this is a crisis and an emergency and we all hope that out of this can come not just a short-term cease-fire but an
opportunity. i don't get the sense that that's there. the best case is to put things back and be look around for opportunities to get the process back on track. >> and to both of you, if there's ever been better evidence that life changes very quickly, take a look at the fact that the life can be a roller coaster that only days after or months, perhaps less than a month after he had secret service protection and entourage also we have seen that he's pumping gas, learning how to pump gas i guess or we'll assume he knew how to pump gas, but we've had a number of pictures of him at disney land on the roller coaster with his boys. >> look -- >> who -- sometimes people can lose a presidential election and continue to be a really phenomenal force in their party
and in politics. i don't think this is going to be the case with mitt romney. he lost this election as you say a couple weeks ago, but unlike say over the last two losers, john mccain and john kerry, he doesn't have a senate seat to go back to. he doesn't have a big base in the party that was with him before he got the nomination. so, maybe he's returning to the life he has ahead which is one more personal and focused on family than politics. >> it's no question this is one nominee who is not going to remain a leader in the party. >> he would have to engage in dramatic actions to be a leader in the party. i say never rule it out. i thought he liked the lifestyle he had before he ran, loves his kids, grandsons, the homes they own. while he grapples with the meaning of his loss he's going to be happy building that southern california mansion and spending time with the kids and also trying to figure out if he does have a place in public life or simply a retired grandfather with a lot of grandchildren he loves.
>> and as the party begins to move on, we hear about jeb bush from his son, the fact that jeb bush may be running and jeb bush actually chastising marco rubio for some of the comments that he made in iowa. >> don't you feel like 2016 started on november 5th? i mean you've got marco rubio in iowa, campaigning with the governor. i mean celebrating the governor's birthday. what do we think that meant? gorjts p. bush, maybe running for 2020 or 2024, running for land commissioner texas. you know, you really get the sense that there is a big field for the gop in four years and it's some of the people who for whatever reason didn't run this time but might be formidable characters, nominees next time like chris christie, for instance. >> or some of the other governors as well. thank you very much, susan page, mark, thank you very much. >> happy holidays, be andrea. >> same to you and yours. we are following breaking developments out of the middle east.
a cease-fire is set to begin in less than an hour from now. about a half hour. we're expecting to hear from israel's prime minister, benjamin netanyahu shortly. stay with us. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. , stop! humans -- one day, we're coming up with the theory of relativity, the next... stop, stop, stop! my car! not so much. but that's okay. you're covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from liberty mutual insurance. total your car, and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. learn about it at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility -- what's your policy?
more breaking news out of the middle east. where a cease-fire between israel and gaza will go into effect in less than an hour ful we'll hear more about that soon from israel's prime minister. joining me nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engelle. what is the reaction in gaza? >> you may be able to hear the mosques behind me, they are celebrating, declaring this a victory, saying that hamas has avenged the death of the militant leader, his assassination starting this latest round of violence according to the palestinian side and think this was a great victory. today we spoke to hamas leader and he said that despite the air
attacks by israel on the gaza strip, hamas was still able to launch rockets into israel. hamas also believes it has gained considerable political legitimacy because of this and a steady stream of arab and middle east leaders have been coming to gaza to visit the hamas prime minister who was until recently considered a pariah. so yes, they lost more people here, about 130 in gaza, a considerable amount of damage, but from hamas' perspective they consider this a victory. in the last few moments hamas has issued a statement on local television telling people to not let their guard down, that in the last few minutes, the israelis could still strike and right now in addition to that mosque celebrating in the background we can also still hear israeli drones in the sky. >> richard, let's assume there is not an israeli attack before the cease-fire and after the cease-fire takes place. is -- do you think that the hamas leaders in gaza are
prepared to stop the smuggling of rockets and the firing of rockets? are they going to live up to it and not stockpile the rockets that have become the source of contention as well from the israeli perspective? >> it's -- i think a lot of people here arery skeptical this cease-fire will hold. it's not the end of the israeli/palestinian conflict. hamas is still going to want to bring in weapons. hamas thinks it was able to reach this point because of its weapons. i will be very skeptical, be very surprised if hamas decided to stop bringing in its rockets from other means. also a degree of skepticism coming from israel. i know we're waiting for a statement from prime minister netanyahu, but a written statement coming from the israeli government sounded very skeptical. if you don't mind i'll read a section that struck me as particularly odd. it said prime minister netanyahu
spoke a short while ago with president barack obama and agreed to his recommendation to give the egyptian cease-fire proposal a chance, and in this way provide opportunity to stabilize the situation and calm before any more forceful action would be necessary. so it seems like the israelis are saying, well, the president of the united states asked us to do it, this is an egyptian proposal, we'll do it, but there does seem to be an underlying we're not certain how this is going to play out and i would be very surprised as well if the israelis immediately pull back all of the troops that they have deployed along the gazanborder. >> they're not going to stand down there. that does sound as though he is laying off responsibility for it and saying, you know, we'll see whether this works. thank you, richard. thanks so much for your reporting. and rejoining me now is former u.s. ambassador to israel martin indyk, vice president of poren politics at brookings.
and james zogby. your initial reactions to the terms as we understand them? >> to comment on what richard engel said, it's much easier for the prime minister of israel to defer to the president of the united states and that's part of the reason why the united states needs to be involved. there's many times if the israelis can say the americans made me do it, it's much more acceptable. as far as the terms of the agreement itself, there really are bare bones as we're reading them here, in real time. it's essentially a return to the status quo and nothing more than that. and, therefore, in itself is not a stable arrangement. and the question would be, what else is there going to be beyond this? if all we have is a return to the status quo, then there's a good chance we'll be here again with an eruption sooner or later. >> hillary clinton, i just want to tell you, is wheels up at
1:24 eastern, she was wheels up, and -- >> she's out of there. >> leaving cairo and after 11 days on the road, i'm reading now from the state department, australia, singapore, thailand, burma, cambodia and egypt, is now heading home and planning to take the next be holiday weekend off and everyone is wished happy holidays from the state department from hillary clinton's team. after a lot of work and a lot of miles. jim zogby, so hillary clinton went, she helped put the pressure on, the -- as martin pointed out you have to have american engagement, she delivered, she's heading home, what happens? >> that's the big question. i would disagree that this is a return to the status quo because there were a number of issues here that have changed. one is that hamas is in political asen densy. there should be no question about that. they're going to be riding high. >> as richard engel was pointing out, egyptian foreign ministers
and turkish foreign ministers -- >> this was a process beginning beforehand for them offering a huge amount for reconstruction. the game has changed somewhat. secondly the role of egypt has changed. they've become the new mubaraks and we'll see how that plays out. they're the stabilizing force as seen in maintaining the status quo. that's the problem, as i agree with what martin says, after 100 something people dead on the palestinian side, what we've got is we're back to where we started but with the difference of hamas in a -- having more ledgitimacy on the street, the palestinian authority weakened and egypt now in the position of maintaining the status quo. what needs to happen to break this, is the united states has to exercise a different qualitatively different kind of leadership, probably after the israeli election, not before, to move this thing off the dime. because if -- i do not believe
it's sustainable to maintain this occupation at this point for a prolonged period of time and not have another eruption some time soon. >> does president obama briefly have to go to israel now? he has not been there. that was a source of controversy. does he have to go early in the second term after benjamin netanyahu's re-election? >> the first thing he has to do is decide whether he's going to reinvest in the effort to resolve the israeli/palestinian conflict. i think at the moment it's a stain on his legacy. if he saw there's an opportunity to remove that stain, i think he would want to do it. but first of all there's going to be an election in israel. he has to see who the prime minister emerges and what kind of coalition had he's got. and then there's the question of what happens on the palestinian side. we've been discussing how divided they are, how weakened the leadership of the palestinian authority has become as a result of this. hamas is the anti-peace party,
not the pro-peace party. it really depends on whether there's -- >> i would disagree with the anti-peace party in the sense -- >> see the destruction of israel -- >> hamas would like to be is the replacement for the peace party. given the chance, i believe they would probably want to function very much like the plo functioned in the old days. they want the legitimacy. they want to be driving the street just as the muslim brotherhood became the new mubarak, the hamas people would become the new palestinian authority if given the chance. the question is do you want to reward them for 20 years of very bad behavior, sabotaging peace when it might have been possible and simply so they could be in the driver's seat running it on their terms. that's i think the issue. >> we will have to leave it there. martin and jim, thank you both so very much. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] take dayquil...
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be sworn in, of course, in january with fresh faces ready to tackle big problems. problems this stymied the last congress and those before, in fact. among the new members of congress, congressman-elect murphy of florida and tea party star congressman alan west only just conceded the race yesterday and joining us is congress-elect horseboard of nevada. thank you very much for joining us. first, apologies to you. we have had this breaking foreign news and haven't as much time as we wanted and we wanted to introduce you and meet you ourselves. >> thank you. >> what are your top objectives, coming from nevada? you have big issues and changes in nevada that helped the president again to carry nevada. tell me about what your first, first objective is and in particular the fiscal cliff. >> absolutely. and thank you for having us on. our first priority here is
focusing on job creation. you know, working across party lines with the president to get things done that need to get done like putting people back to work. the voters spoke very clearly in this election. that they want partisanship to be put aside. they want republicans and independents and democrats to work together to move our country forward, to grow our economy, to protect medicare and social security. as well as to balance the budget in a way that protects the middle class and the working poor and that's what i'm looking forward to do with my colleagues. >> of course, there's -- there are a lot of trade-offs to be made and compromises to be made. i may be among the first to congratulate you. >> thank you. >> congratulations to both of you. what are you willing to commit to if you get the tax cuts the
president and party is demanding? >> sure. well, we have got to reach across the aisle and with the fiscal cliff, both sides have to put everything on the table and do what's best for all mitt romneys and that's not just me talking about it. that's what i heard continually from the people in my district and that's a big reason of why we won the race. my way or the highway doesn't work in politics. we have to be serious about getting our country back on the right track. >> congressman, you're part of a changing demographic. the house democratic caucus is no longer majority white male. women and minorities and people such as yourself now are the majority of this caucus. how's that going to change decisions that are made? >> well, it is historic and i am proud to be among a new, diverse congress that will -- that really reflects all of america. you know, we were elected to be the voice of america and to
represent their issues. and, you know, as someone who grew up here in las vegas, my district is very diverse. we have 25% latino, 16% african-american, 7% asian. it's a very diverse district an i'm proud and honored to have the opportunity to represent them in a new historic congress that's equally diverse. >> congressman murphy, you're also part of a new kind of house caucus and one of the big issues on the president's plate is what to do about cuba. do you think that the fact that cuban-americans for the first time supported barack obama over a republican, the first time since the bay of pigs, is florida changing enough to see a change in policy toward havana? >> yes. no question about it. i've just seen, you know, growing up in south florida a change in generations. my grandparents and a lot of my cuban friends, their grandparents were adamant republicans and single issue
cuba. then my parents, it was a little bit 50-50 and now my generation is definitely leaning more democratic so the issue is changing and i think cubans are becoming more and more democratic with the new generation. >> thank you so much. both of you, congressmen. we look forward to seeing you here in washington with the new term. >> thank you. and meanwhile, prime minister netanyahu has spoken to his people addressed israel. he's said that this is what a responsible government does, that they implemented military force, but also, used political wisdom. his words. that i know that some expected a more intense military response and that may still be needed and not standing down on the threats to invade but he said the right thing to do is exhaust the opportunity to create a long-term cease-fire and as prime minister i have the right steps to safeguard our security. in the past people died in israel on behalf of the nation and wish recovery to the
injured. he thanked hillary clinton. he thanked president obama. and he also thanking the leadership in egypt. and that does it for us. and that does it for this edition of "an dree mitchell reports." we'll see you back here on monday. we'll take a thanksgiving break. events permitting. have a wonderful, peaceful thanksgiving and many blessings to you and your families. my colleague thomas roberts will have "news nation" coming up next. oh, this gas. those antacids aren't working. oh no, not that, not here! [ male announcer ] antacids don't relieve gas. gas-x is designed to relieve gas. gas-x. the gas xperts.
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aarp medicarerx plans insured through unitedhealthcare. call today. ♪ i'm thomas roberts sitting in today for tamron hall. following the breaking news of cease-fire taking place in the middle east. we want to show you live pictures in jerusalem where we have been hearing the first reaction of israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. the prime minister thanking the u.s. government, as well as his own party. president obama speaking with netanyahu today to commend the